Looking for guidance, praying for tolerance.......

[~graced~]

And I'm truly trying to stay open to where folks are operating out of today and trying to keep my opinion of others as none of my business.....BUT....

I'm thinking I'm more than mildly irritated with more than a few folks around the tables here, not to mention extremely disappointed to discover that some folks aren't where I thought they were.

So, I said "yes thanks, I'd be honoured" to a gal that moved into the area months ago and asked me to sponsor her. No biggie to this alcoholic....it's what we get to do. The gal made a decision years ago to have surgery to pursue her identity as a woman. The prominent lables placed upon her is 'transexual', 'transgendered', 'freak' and 'queer'.....this from some of the fine folks around the tables.

It's seeming to be a biggie to a whole buncha folks and I'm finding myself not tolerating their opinions about her presence or choices in regard to her decision with changing genders-- and I'm starting to become judgemental (in my head) about other's judgements which is NOT where I wanna be. And yes, I'm praying about this one a whole lot and not reacting to people's reactions and instead staying loving in my actions and words.

Last I knew our common welfare comes first and it's seeming to not come first in regards to the gal I'm sponsoring......I'm getting bombarded with all sorts of 'ick' with people undoubtedly feeling threatened by her presence.
And I'm getting extremely disappointed in the welcome or lack thereof she's receiving in the community as a whole.

Lord, help me to not blow some people up...cuz boy do I wanna! I know love and tolerance of others IS our code, but it's feeling like I'm tolerating what's intolerable, which makes ME intolerant of their intolerance....*sigh*

And someone give me some guidance in how to address the group as a whole, can ya? Last I knew I'm not required to stand up and announce my sexual identity, profession or sexual preference at the podium--just that I'm an alcoholic in recovery. And my understanding is that I would be welcomed in any community, anywhere...cuz I'm an alcoholic and that's enough to earn me a seat amongst kindred souls who aren't there to judge me for squat and who are there to simply share their experience, strength and hope.

*bigger sigh*
Last night she was asked by two members not to return to a meeting and rang me to tell me....so doing 'nothing' isn't an option.

[cap]

Hey Graced,you, sound so much like myself,in,"trying" save others.,The reason "YOU",have to say something to da group,is..?.. .Yea,its painful,,hurtful to sit back,watch others tear down this gal,im sure.But action,i always find is the best course to take.That action,being,to help another to apply program in their lives,no matter what is happening .This is what the recovery program is all about for me.Its not to take over anothers issues,but to help them ,share with them how to apply program.The promises only comes through,and true, ,and the program works only when i work it.Not to have others do it for me.,and do the things that i need to do for self,in order to grow.I then learn to realy others and learn nothing,myself.,if i let others come to bat for me.I have learned to rely on my HP,because others refused to drag me out of situations,that i had put myself in.At first i thought them as uncaring,,mean folk.Today i thank God for them,because,,those situations,,brought me to my knees to God..We carry the message,not the person.God will do for this gal,,what you and i cannot.I dont try to control folks today..If im telling them they are wrong,then im trying to withhold them from being,who they are.Standing in God,s way,to force what i think is the right thing to do again.Maybe this flack has a blessing in it somewhere for this gal.Make her stronger,,who knows.???The best help i can give another,in any situation,is to share,experience,strenght and hope.Share how i apply program in my life.And pray for them.Pray for the group,thats tearing at this gal.,too.And be there to listen...and offer support...Ive been there many,many times.,getting in the way,of helping others.And it didnt help,but make things bigger and worse for them.,when i got involved..That road of good intentions...smile...Ive shared my es and h.May,i, suggest,to you is to sit,pray and ask your Hp,for guidence.You will know what to do.That gut feeling,when the mind is quiet..Page 13,,BB...
Sending prayers your way,,,
God Bless,,take care!!!!!!!!!!

[knothead]

Last I heard "The *ONLY* requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking."

That is my first gut reaction to your dilemma. So, the group should be confronted on that basis.

Also, "AA, as such, has no opinion on outside issues, hence the the AA name never be drawn into public controversy."

It sounds to me like this group has gotten off of the stated "one primary purpose," which is to "carry the message to alcoholics who still suffer."

Not to mention tradition four. I think this could very well have a potential negative impact on "AA as a whole." Especially if were to ever leak out into "press, radio and films."

The group has no legs to stand on by banning your sponcee from attending meetings. Niether morally nor legally.

IMHO, of course.

[ellar]

Hi

Just want to say that I agree with Knothead. Surely a Martian could go to an AA meeting without any fear of being judged fjust or being an alien ...... aren't the rest of the people in the meeting drifting off the point? What has gender got to do with making a group effort to help everyone to sort out their problems re. alcohol? And why should the group feel that they have any right to comment on/criticise another person's gender choice - actions which might lead to a drop in that person's self esteem.

Good luck graced. Concentrate on the matter in hand and being a sponsor.

By the way - is it usual for a group to ask one of its members to leave because are uncomfortable withthat person's gender?

Take care

Ella

[~graced~]

Ya know, Cap...I talked with one of the fella's that sponsor me and he asked me "what's the worst thing that would happen if you do 'nothing'". I argued a bit with him. (I've been known to do that..LOL) And I surrendered and came to understand this is a part of her journey, no doubt. That inbetween spot that it feels like I'm placed in isn't necessarily bad...and doing 'nothing' isn't necessarily bad. Feeling intolerant of other's intolerance brings me to intolerance--or is it a state of acceptance or apathy? I certainly don't feel apathetic...dunno that I wanna accept what feels like the unacceptable. And yep, 'feels like' is the right term. I certainly don't feel apathy for the circumstances or the solution at this moment.

No doubt G-d has a plan in this. The gal will be stronger for the experience. Hopefully so will countless others around the tables here. Makes me darn sad. Maybe I relate a bit much to the issue of 'not qualifying'...I was here at 19 when 19 wasn't considered 'alcoholic material' and 'I spilt more than you drank' was a standard line given to me. My 'then sponsor' told me to stick with the winners and simply smiled knowingly. I stuck with the winners and I'm still here. I wasn't asked to not return to a meeting.....ever. Not even after pulling a gun during a speaker meeting cuz I was bored hearing his story. Folks have been extremely tolerant and loving with me. I don't get it when it comes to this pigeon. Only thing I can figure is that some folks feel threatened....guess that's not required that I 'get it'....more will be revealed.

I've done nothing to this point. There's been grumblings and talking about going on and the gal and I have managed to walk through that much. Can't say that I feel real proud of how some of the community has responded to her presence.....in other cases, I'm dang proud for some embracing her in spite of their own fears. She's got awesome stuff to give away....people are cheating themselves for shooting the messenger.

Yep, doing nothing is an option. That's what we've been doing up to this point. Doing more of that might be what G-d intends the both of us to do. There's lessons in every circumstance placed in front of us--I've no reason to believe G-d ISN'T multi tasking in this one to bring the lesson to me, one more time.

As I told the sponsor--I've 'been still', I've listened and waited and done what's in front of me and we've continued to work on the steps and do the deal. Love and tolerance of others is our code, ya know...and she can love them regardless of what their response is to her. I can as well....but if you're advising me to be still, quit listening to ego talking and listen to G-d---there's this niggling in my heart that tells me there's more to be done, one that's undeniably NOT me. Maybe, I was hoping someone would tell me G-d's plan for me in this?..LOL Cuz I still keep getting that 'nudge' and I'd like to KNOW what that one is about..LOL

Dunno.....guess I buy more time and do what's in front of me and more will be revealed. G-d has a way of opening up opportunities when it's time and making it clear what's needing done.

Yeah, yeah...be still and KNOW.....
(sometimes I suck at being still...LOL)

[~graced~]

Thanks, Knothead. Yep..all those things are true. They're all things I believe in and I'm accountable to. I was hoping other folks would see those and honour those.....I'm pretty sad that's not happening in some cases. I don't get to control that, though I wish I had some magic wand to make it different. I've even bartered with G-d on this one and asked if He could hurry up a bit, whack 'em on the head and get them to see what's they're doing and how it's affecting another human being. Either He's taking His own sweet time, or He got a bit rushed in dealing with other affairs He thought were more important cuz it would seem He ain't whacked 'em with some enlightenment yet! (so I'm NOT the most patient person in the world...LOL)

Hey Ella--nice to see ya. Missed seeing you in the Chip section!

And nope, it's not the norm for the "Martian go home" reactions around here, but this area is pretty 'small town' with a few smatterings of larger cities if you travel an hour in either direction..... not that it excuses the end result of folks who decided they could act in an unloving manner. But human beings will be human beings and we'll give ourselves permission to judge/react in fear. I certainly don't condone it. I also can't say that I've been one to be void of opinions of others--I'm clear I have an opinion of their interactions today. My sponsor reminded me last evening that my opinion of other's was none of my business, nor were other people's opinions of me or this gal any of my business. He's right, of course...LOL G-d'll take care of it, no doubt...

I know the traditions, I know the singleness of purpose, I know the 'ammunition' I could pull out to toss at people to strongly suggest they pull their heads out of their whazoos and grow up! (see...LOL G-d needs to move this one ahead in His list of 'to do's'!) I'm good at self appointed 'blowing up' of other human beings! I was doing that before I learned the 'rules'.....learning the 'rules' gives me justification to do that blowing up of people...LOL Not really......back to love and tolerance of others is our code.

It's all feeling pretty circular and points me back in the direction of being still. I THOUGHT I was being still and resting in knowing G-d would do for some what they weren't able to do for themselves....I'm just an impatient little bugger who wants it done NOW and hates to see 'you're not coordially invited' being used as a viable answer to some folks' own fears--cuz we're talking people's lives.

Yep, that's what makes me the saddest of all....we're talking about people's LIVES here. Hers....theirs....and mine.

Thanks for talking at me and saying true things. I know for today, being still and KNOWING isn't what I wanna do.....but it's required. My best thinking isn't G-d's answer...it's simply my best thinking.

[MrDuck]

Got your email inviting me to come read this thread. You would ask my opinion. Good God girl there are not many people out there that have stirred up and pissed off more groups then me. You got the ammo. What seems to be your problem. Is the sight on your gun off or do you just have a sore trigger finger? Actually I wouldn't shot any of them. I would just take the Big Book and 12 X 12 and beat the helll out of them ;D

This I know. That no matter where this lady goes or what she does she will always have that issue to deal with. I know that personal I cannot and will not fight someones battles for them. But I would support her in keep going to meetings.

As for the group. OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. I would ripe them a new ahole in a heart beat.

Seems to me that in the 40's or when ever it was AA had all the groups send in a list of rules and who qualifies and who doesn't qualify. Ended up to be only one qualification.

There is this dingy woman from Iowa that I have chatted with for several years. More then once she has stung me good. When she does she likes to say, "AAAAAWWWW Ron. Did I hurt your little bity alcoholic feelings? WELLLLLLLLLLLL GET OVER IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT ABOUT YOUR AND YOU LITTLE BITY ALCOHOLIC FEELINGS. THIS IS ABOUT RECOVERY" Do them words sound familiar?

You know what? If I got to pick and choose who stays and who goes there would be a lot of straight people that I would love to get rid of.

Let me know what you do. Oh I am sure that doing nothing is not an opition for you. haha Stuff like this is not bad. We need to be wakened up at times. Wish you the best little lady.

Ron

[sfscuba]

Wow! I would have never thought that a "transaholic" would make people think that they are "better" than others, especially when it comes to the hand of AA. I live in San Francisco where tolerance and understanding is paramount among the people who choose to live here. My sponsor told me that if I am bothered by another person, place or thing, that I must look inside myself to see why I am bothered by this. . .it usually is within me that I find the answer. You do not need to 'justify' your relationship with this person nor defend it. . .it is the way it is and all you have control over in this life is your own attitude and actions. Personally, I would rather be despised for what I am than admired for what I am not. . .
Hope this helps and hope you find an answer. . .
Peace,
colin

[~graced~]

*chuckling at the duck*

Get it right, Sir Duck....that would be 'you and your precious, fragile little alcoholic feeling'...LOL And yep, we get to 'get over it' and do what's 'right', regardless of how we feel or what we wanna do...welcome to recovery! :-P pfffffftttttttttt! LOLOL *hugs the duck*

Oh, you know me, Ron....LOL I won't 'be still' forever. I'm even pretty clear I don't 'get' to be with this one. G-d'll give me the opportunity and the venue to address the "you're coordially invited not to attend this meeting" incident. I'm simply buying time and awaiting Him to give me the moment and the clarity. Dunno that I'll need the gun....I'm thinking G-d'll take care of that....I simply need to use the opportunity He avails to me to deliver the message. What folks then do with it is theirs...I'm simply the messenger. When in doubt, pause, pause, pause....

Nah...I'm not concerned about me, her or anyone's 'precious, fragile little alcoholic feeling' in this one. It's their fear--hers included. Undoubtedly she'll get to deal with the issue over and over again--A.A.'s just proven to be another practive field for her and a whole lot of other folks, obviously. True to A.A.'s nature, there's already a bit of buzzing about the pigeon being asked to 'coordially not attend' that meeting. Interesting to watch where folks feet land in this one. I've learned a whole lot about me, as well. I'm not so ignorant to believe I'm not getting some lessons out of this one too, I know G-d multi-tasks. Least, I was reminded of that last night....

I did ask an old timer direction when he siddled up to me, rubbed his hands together and smilingly said "controversy!!!". Pissed me off...LOL....G-d love him. He suggested that it was nice seeing me in a position of 'guilt by association' and 'contempt prior to investigation', thought perhaps MY ego and pride needed a bit of checking. Hmmmph! Who yanked HIS chain..LOL And how dare he think that G-d was multi tasking in this one. I was wanting to believe it was all about them and her and none of this was about precious little mememe....LOL Yeah, well.....duh! LOL


I'll get to do some growing in all this myself, no doubt. I'd like to think I already am...LOL...but I know better than to rest in that, cuz about the time I do, I get 'thunked' by G-d and reminded that He and I aren't 'done' yet...LOL

*hugs the duck*
Thanks!

[~graced~]

"I would rather be despised for what I am than admired for what I am not. . ."

Wow, Colin.....that's a mouthful of wisdom that I absolutely needed passed on to me.

Welcome to the community here at EOR. And thanks for that one!

[cap]

Hi again,no,no i never said to do nothing,im suggesting that you dont take over,this issue,and get so out there that your sponcee is learning not to do for herself,what she needs to do to grow,and use program,for this issue.Your doing something,,,when your sharring,.When you relate to your sponcee,about your own experience,with being 19,and all that was said to you,how did you handle this?You stuck with the winners..as was suggested by your sponsor.Did your own sponsor ,,take over this issue,,and then come to tell the group off.Did she get angry,,resentful,,etc.,...She guided you to stick with the winners,,and you have...and it worked....Your doing something when you listen,,and support her.Why take over,,her responsibilites?..Cant control people.Make them do what i want,,darn it,,lol..We all deal with this,on,one level,or sometimes in our lives.People not accepting..being rejected,in some form..Ya know some people think im great.Others think im a ......well we wont get into that,,lol.Its not about da others.its about me,my recovery.We are not saints,,thats for sure...smile.Some are sicker than others.Sick folks,just dont act and speak as if they were well.I use to have expectations too,,about the folks in program.I expected them to be better,than the rest of the people outside of the rooms.Here i found out that they are just humans,,doing the best that they know how to,.Sick folks,,just like me.Growing,learning,everyday.Life on lifes terms is not always easy.But with God and program,,im a changing everyday.Its a process,,ongoing.Its ok today that people dont like me..lol...And when they say things,hurtful,to me,,im able to,step back,,cool my jets,and, pray today for them.Wasnt always this way..No..No.smile...And i would never know how to overcome this,had i not worked program,on these issues that come into my life.Pray for those folks..how crazy...But ya know,,it works..!!!..everytime..They didnt change.But my attitude,changes,towards them.,in prayer,,going to God,for strenght,and courage to meet my problems as He would have me.Now i try,to do this all the time...Of course being human,i sometimes let it rip,,before doing this,,lol...Process,,not perfection,,thats me....People,,places and things.....I am a member,because i say that i am.....
God Bless,,take care!!!!!!!!!!!

[knothead]

["The gal made a decision years ago to have surgery to pursue her identity as a woman. The prominent lables placed upon her is 'transexual', 'transgendered', 'freak' and 'queer'.....this from some of the fine folks around the tables."]

This quote from your intial post I either ignored or else somehow missed (the fog is still clearing ever so slowly!).

My question is how do "the fine folks around the tables" actually know for certain that she is going through being re-directed (lack of a better term) sexually? Did she share that at a meeting or something? If she did, I think part of the blame lies on her own shoulders. If getting a sex-change operation is causing her enough grief to be tempted to pick up a drink, then perhaps she should have confided in her sponser in private before hauling off & announcing it in an AA meeting.

Even if all of what I said above is true, doesn't make up for the way the group behaved in banning her, IMHO. But it is, at least, a little more understandable, given the way humans tend to have knee-jerk reactions to uncommon/unfamiliar situations (alcoholics & non-alcoholics alike).

Keep on doing the next right thing. Pray a lot. Things seem to always work out for the best when we surrender to God's will & accept those things over which we have no control, at least in the long run. I know I will include you in my prayers.

Take care & be at peace with the knowledge that others are concerned here.

[~graced~]

Thanks for for all the shares with this. I'm clear it's not a comfortable topic around these tables, the whole situation makes for a whole lot of growth opportunities for a whole lot of folks, obviously me included. And yep, Kothead, had her surgery been successful in making her 'pass' we'd be dealing with a whole 'nother set of issues--but that isn't the case. All her concerted efforts will not make her 'pass' today. That's a whole separate issue which lends to the whole picture of folk's reaction to the gal.

I'm certainly not looking for 'blame' and I 'disallow' fingerpointing in my own life--I'm pretty clear that my troubles are of my own making. Rarely am I ever truly a victim of anyone else's decision or of circumstances in general--It does happen...LOL..but I'm clear that's rare in the life of this alcoholic! If I want--yep, this trouble is of her own making as well......she opted for the surgery, it failed to make her 'pass', she's living with it. Which means she gets to live with folk's reactions to what they visably see. I'm not certain she asked to be 'trapped' in the wrong gender (that one's subject to debate all over the place, I'm certain--I don't know G-d's journey for me, let alone her...), she and I are both clear that she chose the surgery. And yep, this one is subject to debate outside of the rooms of A.A., inside if it's driving the drink--and it'll create for controversy.

Given that she doesn't 'pass'....you're right...it's terribly 'human' of folks to have that 'knee jerk' reaction. I can't say that I personally like some of the reactions folks have, though I can say it's given me clarity of how 'at peace' some are in their own skin, including me. I can't say that all folks have been mature and shining examples of 'acceptance' and 'love and tolerance'. Understandably. We're all at different places in our recovery, we're horribly human, we're folks who are trying day by day to live differently. Being asked to not return to a meeting......bothers me...... and still does.

I understand the discomfort, I understand and even respect the turmoil it creates for some folks--and I don't even see it as 'all bad' and even if I can't say it makes me proud of the community as a whole, I can say "how horribly human of them" and forgive. We all have that choice and the tools to use to make that a reality in our lives. I don't have to like it or sanction it or be a part of the problem.

Hence the pause and wait until clarity comes in how to be a part of the solution when it comes to being uninvited to attend a meeting. That one 'feels' like it's mine, cuz I'm a part of the community. But...I could be wrong..LOL Been THAT before as well!

[~graced~]

Cap, as one who was asked and said 'yes thank you, I'd be honoured' when the gal asked me to sponsor her, rest assured that 'do nothing' isn't what I do in the work with the pigeon. I've been able to pass on the things which you spoke to and shared with me here. Yep, love and tolerance of others is still our code--we handle things with dignity and grace, no matter what another person gives themself permission to act like. We get to choose our actions, our attitudes...G-d's large and in charge and we truly do pray for sick people....LOL.....me included!

That 'pause' is simply waiting for clarity and opportunity to work with the community or the folks at bay who decided to uninvite the gal to a meeting. Best we can see, her side of the street is clean in this one--it would appear the only thing she did was show up for a meeting and share her experience, strength and hope. I suggested the inventory--it's what I do when I find I wanna blame or be a victim of a situation.

And yep, still pausing...LOL I sure do wish G-d would get around to klunking me on the head and giving me some clarity so I can go 'duh....THAT'S what I'm suppose to be doing with this one, huh?!?!' And don't think I'm not praying for it multiple times daily!!! For the moment, it's a whole lot of continued prayer and loving tolerance of folks who are now ringing the house to ask if I know what's going on over there. "Yep..know and love 'em just the same, thanks. Gotta trust that G-d has a plan in this one just like every other one....so...What's new in your life?" has been my response most times...LOL

I know I'll be going to the regular Saturday evening meeting....might even hit the noon meeting... I'm thinking I could use one or two!!!

[cap]

Sounds like a great plan....smile..I know your hurt that they dont want her at the meetings,understandable....But really who are ....they?...They are....a bunch of drunks...no better,,,,lol..Really when ya think about it,.There are,times, I need to i lighten up,,no matter how serious.Because if i dont,my problems can over-take me.My probelms then master me.I cant go there.graced,i have myself an issue.I went to meetings talking about it.,years ago.I put the name to my illness...No one seemed to relate to me.I felt alone,again.All alone in my pain.When my sponsor asked me to talk about my feeling/thoughts,about what was happening,in my life,and dont put a name to it.{i have a illness,and i named this illness,at meetings}}.it was then that those in the rooms could relate to me.Although they dont have this illness that i have,they sure have felt the fear,anger,confusion,rejection,etc,,,that i was feeling at the time.It was the name of my illness that threw them off.,and they felt their own fear,,what if they get it someday?I today,just dont mention the name,anymore.I talk about my thoughts/feelings.and where im at..and they relate..because the bottom line is,,i am alcoholic,no matter what other issues come into my life...they are too,and are able to help me,through.It would be nice,if i could just say,the name.,but.........life on lifes terms again..Today,,now this is after working the program,for years,if some asked me not to come anymore,i would laugh,and still go...,lol...Here,s a saying that i hope helps you through this.,and your sponcee,too.It sure helps me,,when i just dont know,,.When i see the world and its people, as being,,blahhhh,why arent they differnt....as well as page 13 BB...too.
face your difficulties[which you are] and acknowledge them.But do not let them master you.Let them teach you patience,sweetness and insight.When we do the best we can,we never know what miracles is brought in our lives or in the lives of another..
Lord help me to remember that.nothing...is going to happen to me today that You and i cant handle...
graced,i have faith in God.I have faith in program..I dont have the answers,.Only that what looked to be God awful in my own life,,turned out to be the best thing that ever happened,to me..
Thanks for letting me share,,
all da best to you and your sponcee...
Hopeing my blabbering about my experience helped ya...

[~graced~]

(((((((((Cap)))))))))))

Ya know....I DO relate. Probably extremely. I had an 'outside issue' for 8 some years of my life and no one knew the name. I didn't bother to put a name on it either. I watched those closest to me change their relationship with me when I named the other disease-- mostly out of fear and their own experiences with the disease. I wanted to safeguard my relationships around the tables and not place myself in a position to muddle up the primary purpose. (oh great and powerful mememe....LOL)

I still remember the day I showed up with a hat covering my bald head and the whole group being astounded. I'd done that 'well' at keeping quiet the nature of the 'other' disease. A.A. was where I could get 'away' from the rest of the garbage and keep sane working a program of recovery. More than one person has asked me why it was I cheated the whole out of the choice of being there for me during the crisis of the other disease. I can see both sides today-- In my eyes, they were there for me. I'm sure you know what I mean....cuz you're doing what I did.

Fact is, that's how I came to know internet A.A. It was a place where I could share my experience, strength and hope during times I wasn't physically able to place myself around the tables. No one would 'see' the problem and I could simply share what was true for me without the 'other disease' becoming the issue, without people's fear of that disease dictating how the message was heard. I was 'just another alcoholic'. Manipulative as that was, it wasn't all bad. I gleened a whole lot of help and love during hard times....and I was able to give that as well. It was truly a lifesaver of a solution.

And I love page 13 in the Big Book....especially:

"I was to test my thinking by the new God-consciousness within. Common sense would thus become uncommon sense. I was to sit quietly when in doubt, asking only for the direction and strength to meet my problems as He would have me. Never was I to pray for myself, except as my requests bore on my usefulness to others. Then only might I expect to receive. But that would be in great measure."

(((((((((((Cap)))))))))))))

Thanks for sharing with me, Cap....pretty important to this alcoholic to not simply be listening to herself...LOL

[cap]

{{{{{graced}}}}}}},looks like we have the same other illness.I was told by our group to stick to the primary purpose,at meetings,also tradition 5.Talk about recovery i was told.,at meetings..At first i thought,,wowow,,geesh,,but in time i realised the reasons for this.And ,in the long run,this has been the, better good for me.,in the long run.Ive learned alot of lessons,through this.And the times i was weak and couldnt talk,i was there listening,to one after another member talking about recovery,and how they apply program,in there lives, ,,i felt a whole lot better.Talking recovery,,brought to my mind,,oh,,,yea,,i forgot to do that,or look that one up in da BB..,smile...Now the meeting after the meetings,,,we talk about everything.Outside issues,,inside issues,,side-way issues,,and issues about issues,,hehehee..Seems like you and i are with the group,that helps us the most.Different strokes for different folks....
When your talking to an AA member,,you are no longer talking to yourself,,lol..
take care,,sendinfg prayers your way,..God Bless,,take care....

[mizeeyore59]

okay. my two cents. First, ignorance breeds fear. Fear and love cannot co-exist. Those who asked that your sponsee leave the meeting/group are displaying lots of ignorance and fear. Meetings are like church and doctors, neither one's perfect, and we're all in it for the practice. Myself, I'd try to bring them around (tendency towards piss and vinegar here), but only once. In other words, I wouldn't leave quietly. I generally choose a face-to-face group because they mostly have something I want, not unlike choosing a sponsor. Those folks are not displaying something I want. After all, where's the growth in a closed mind? There's that old saying about ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever. My know-when-to-quit would go off after one and only one attempt to bring them around. I'm thinking that your sponsee deserves a chance to see an AA group that actually functions like it should, where the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. After all, if our primary purpose is to bring the program to others, then get on with bringing the program to your sponsee. I'm not saying shop around for what you want to hear, but the primary purpose thing and the only requirement thing should be a given wherever she lands!! Life's too short, ya know?

Another way I've heard that fine saying is "what other folks think about me is none of my business".

My prayers are for your sponsee, you, and especially those with the closed minds.

-terri

[~graced~]

((((((((((Cap)))))))))) (just cuz I can.....) :-)

And Terri...that's what my sponsor's been telling me for eons...."other people's opinions of you are none of your business". I've passed that on to the pigeon over and over again. It's my relationship with my HP that makes or breaks me....period.

And yep...we've talked about going to a different meeting, shopping around for one that 'fits'. We all grow at our own pace--frankly some of the best meetings I get to be in are the one's that are experiencing a growth spurt.

That being said....


I went to the Saturday noon meeting. If you want a meeting that's filled with the old farts in program, this is the one to go to. As they lovingly joke, the wives are out spending their money and they're either being drug along from shop to shop, formulating their resentment as they go...LOL....or they're showing up to stop from killing 'em. Better they should show up around the tables, eh? And since I'm not a shopper (geeze, I hate shopping) I showed up there. GREAT plan...I'm thinkin' it was G-d's plan and not mine cuz I was simply going to go to the evening meeting and skip the noon one and be lazy! But I love those old farts and opted to show up just for poops and grins--I was going to give one or two of them a rotten time--they're just plain fun to pick on! Or that's what I, in all my 'infinite' wisdom thought....LOL

Wanna tell ya--they'd already heard that one of their own had been cordially invited to not attend a meeting. It would seem that G-d has that one covered, at least for today. The step meeting, on step seven of course, only served to be a great discussion given the buzz of that one simple, but seemingly complicated situation. Seems there's one or two that sponsor one or two that work with the one or two that 'cordially univited' the gal. I'm pretty sure I can rest knowing that G-d's already been at work through others and all I have to do is let Him.

At the Sunday night meeting I crossed paths one of the two 'uninviters' and told him that I'd be more than willing to walk through the fear with him and reminded him that we're charged with the primary purpose and for that, we are responsible. He told me his sponsor was going to help him get past his own part of the problem and that he was wrong. He told me needed to talk with the gal and make his amends. I told him he was loved exactly as he was and I was proud for him to be willing to face the fears.

Geeze I love this program. :-)

Great things happen for me and countless others, ya know?

(((((((((((Everyone))))))))))))

Gotta thank all you folks for sticking with me and sharing as well....it helped keep me to stay in the 'pause' and outta that self appointed, righteous indignation, which is where I can tend to go when I'm feeling the wrongness of a situation.

[mender1]

I got sober in Akron and they have gay meeting's
I have no problem with anyone who is gay.
I grew up in a social world that was taught live and let live with open sexual free love.(60's)
i was a love child and still hold many of those ideal's.
One's sexual habit's are not mine unless I choose to make them apart of mine.
AA is a melting pot of so many cultures ideal's and belief's it is a wonder it works.
It works because for the whole we are accepting people
then there are those who have thier own personal hangup's or thier own personal fear's and can not get past the difference of ideal's.
Perhap's these people who stand in judgement have thier own secret's that they fear will come out.
Live and Let Live is not just a statement it is a requirement if we are to have serenity within this program.
I have no right to judge.
I was told it was a sin to be gay perhap's this is where they stand in judgement from.
Then I was taught to hate the sin and love the person.
I really have no problem with a transsexual being my friend .
It is not a life style I choose but I have no right to choose for someone else.
Back home I have some friend's who are gay and I was speaking at one of thier meeting and was approached after by a gay man who wanted a date with me.
He thought because I was friend's and socialized with a certain group that I also was gay.
I was uncomfortable with him asking but I realized that I was in a place which gave the appearance of a alternate life style.
To stand in judgement is wrong WRONG I SAY
stand by your belief's and you will be showed the way to handle it.
You may ask if they have doubt's about thier own sexuality if they continue to judge.
If they say they do not then ask them why it bother's them so much to have a person who choose to do what they thought was right for themselves there.