cut and paste enforcement

[MrDuck]

Max would you enforced the cut and paste policy as stated in your November 11, 2007 post?

Sure would apreciate it.

Have a great day,

Ron

[caressa]

Dear Ron,

I am sorry you still feel so strongly about this. I appreciate what Sunnygirl is posting on the site and what she has done for the site since she has come back. A lot more sharing has taken place.

I do post links when possible. Most of what I get I get from my Yahoo mail box and can't link to that. I have 111 e-mail addressess and have received a lot of good material over the years and I feel sad that you don't want me to share it with others.

I have tried to spread them out. I am guilty of coming on in the middle of the night when I can't sleep and posting more. It is like a new day for me and I look at it as food for the soul and pray it will help others.

This board is my only way in the moment to do 12 Step work. I post for the newcomers who come to the site. We do get visitors although the number fluxuates. I think some of those visitors are friends of mine who have sent me e-mails and like to see their stuff posted on the internet.

My sites are closing down so I can't share there anymore. I do post at Recovery Inn as well, yet this site has always come first for me.

It is too bad we don't have meetings still. I have had a lot of requests about the online meetings.

The program says "Carry the message to the alcoholic/addict who still suffers and I feel that we do that here. It is about how to live in today without having to pick up and if we do make that slip, it is about picking ourselves up and trying again.

[MrDuck]

There is a difference between sharing and addiction. By your own admission you have 10 sites that are going down. That doesn’t say how may sites in total you go to. Just 10 of them going down. You said you have 111 e-mail addresses. By your numbers I would call it an addition not sharing. Sharing to me isn’t cutting and pasting everything I read. It is sharing from the heart. Sometimes Cherie and others have cut and paste more than once a day but was done in good taste and moderation.

It is only 1:10 pm here and you have already posted 12 times on the board. Is it sharing? Is it addiction? Or is it control? When I am at a face to face meeting and some one wants to dominate it that tells me that they must think that whatever they have to say is way more important than the rest of us at the meeting.

Is sharing posting so much stuff that what others post gets buried to the point others would have to dig to find it? Is sharing making the site a personal dumping grounds for one’s own use?

This is not meant to be an attack on you. Perhaps you need to look at the addiction part of it. You have stated in the past that you have eye problems and carpel (sp) tunnel. Perhaps you should ask a doctor if the amount of time spent on the computer has or does contribute to it.

This has been an on going issue for some period of time. Most others do not voice their opinion as I do and just never come back and move on to where ever.

Personal I hope the cut and paste is enforced. I also wish there was a maximum of 5 post per day per person.

Neither, you nor I nor anyone else is all that important that we should try dominate this site. Sadly many of those that stopped coming had a lot to offer.

Not going to bet a dead horse. Now days there are only a hand ful that come here anymore. That being you, SunnyGirl, DG, Lin, and me. Rather than you and I going back and forth on the issue I would prefer to here from the other three and Max and let the majority have the final say. We all have choices to make. After they have made their choices we can make our choice.

Have a great day,

Ron

[caressa]

It appears we come here for different reasons. Due to my pain, my days are not on a rigid schedule and I come on line when I am unable to sleep. It helps me to get out of myself and detach from my pain to come here and read and post. I can only be on for short periods of time. For the most part, I post an item that has spoken to me. I don't expect people to agree with me and don't look for people to respond to what I have written although it is nice when others share.

Because of health issues, I can't get out to meetings. This site has been my recovery group. My sites have been a place to share the things my friends have forwarded to me.

I started with 5 addresses. People have been added over the past ten years and I would say that over 50 of them have been deleted. I have an e-mail for each of my sites and in MSN and Yahoo. When I was off line for 5 months I delete 500 plus e-mails in one addy alone. I am grateful for all the friends I have met on line.

We do get visitors. I post so there is recovery material for them to read.

I don't look at this site as a gossip column or a chat room. For me it is a site which newcomer can come to and learn how to live clean and sober.

A place to remember when and be grateful that I am not there any more. A place to share how this program has worked for me. I have 5 types of arthritis. I am not mobile and in the winter time I am pretty much house bound. Today my son had to help me with my walker to walk downtown and get food from the market because of the snow here. You have a different life style and different needs. This site has been my life line.

I don't think it is an addiction or control. I suffer from chronic pain and have a sleep disorder. When I am not here I am reading, watching TV, cooking and doing chores in my apartment.
When you only sleep 3 hours out of 24 it makes for more time to come to this site. I as sorry you resent that.

I will try to cut back on cut and paste. I am sorry that you don't want me to share my esh.
I have copied different articles because I don't think that my word is the be all and end all. Many articles speak for themselves. I will keep my post away from the Coffee Shop and just put the 'Have a great day' post there. I like to think that the people who write the copy and paste shared from the heart when they wrote them. It isn't all about me. I try to keep an open mind to others ideas and concepts.

Today I was going back to look at some old posts. There is some good material here and hopefully people will continue to come and read even if they choose not to share.

[SunnyGirl]

Jan 17, 2009 14:55:09 GMT -5 MrDuck said:

Personaly I hope the cut and paste is enforced. I also wish
there was a maximum of 5 post per day per person.

I disagree with Max's 1 cut and paste per day rule!
But he is in charge and I TRY to abide by it on most days. Ron,
by imposing a 5 post per day rule you would limit me from
responding to 5 of 10 people that just might come thru the
door. I try to respond to any post made and I try to share
a poem or a saying in other sections. In my humble opinion,
there should be no limits as to how many posts a person makes.

Neither, you nor I nor anyone else is all that important that we
should try dominate this site. Sadly many of those that stopped
coming had a lot to offer.

Ron, do you believe that I am trying to dominate EOR?
I often put more than 5 posts..... I agree there are many that
stopped coming, but I am not sure it was all about cut and paste.
If you remember Woody + Deano both got on me about cut and
paste! Am I to blame for the sight going dead?

Not going to bet a dead horse. Now days there are only a hand
ful that come here anymore. That being you, SunnyGirl, DG, Lin,
and me. Rather than you and I going back and forth on the
issue I would prefer to here from the other three and Max and let
the majority have the final say. We all have choices to make.
After they have made their choices we can make our choice.
Have a great day, Ron

I agree a group consenses should be made about this issue.
I am 100% against flooding the boards with cut and paste!
If Max would agree to no more than 2 or 3 would you be
willing to give it a try. I think we should keep them out of
the coffeeshop. Caressa's Have a great day could be
put in the Newcommers section. I have seen your shares
get lost and try to bump them up.....

Ron, if you tell me that my posting 3 cut and paste in one
day would be cause for you to leave EOR it would make
me very sad. Because you are my friend, I would give up
all cut and paste if it means this to you. You make me
laugh and I am always waiting to read your posts. They
carry a lesson and I learn from you.... And besides what
does a dizzy yellow canary like me know ;D ~SG~

[MrDuck]

I still like the idea of a maximun of 5 post a day. Different times I have left this site for periods of a time as I get feed up when all I see is post from one person and if anyone else did post it is buried.

responding to 5 of 10 people that just might come thru the
door.

If 5-10 people come though the door wouldn't that be great. If that happened I see nothing wrong with responding to THEIR POST. That is different than just flooding the boards with posts.


In my humble opinion,
there should be no limits as to how many posts a person makes.

I disagree with that one and that is what has started this whole debate among some of us. I know of several that did just what I did a few times and said the hel$ with EOR. THe difference is after a period of time I came back and they didn't. To me what a person says is more important that a mess of cut and paste. A lot of read a ton of stuff that is important but to cut and paste everything makes no sense to me. Seems more like a computer addiction to me than sharing. For me the cut and paste takes the personal touch out of the site. I have never had a problem with what anyone puts on the board except for one person that floods the place. A little is nice but to much ruins it. Water is nice but New Orleans got to much.

Woody + Deano

This is another issue. Both could of had a lot to offer. Unfortunately Woody choose to use his talents in the wrong way and for the wrong reasons. That is sad as he is a very gifted man. Deano didn't get off on the right track but came around and it was said that he stopped coming. I know why he stopped coming but if you or others want to know I suggest you ask him.

Haven't heard from Lin, DG, or Max on this matter so to me all the ballets arn't in. What ever is decided is the way it is. Hopefully something comes about. If not it really don't matter as we all are old enough to make our own decisions as to what we are going to do.

One of the big issues seems to be what is MODERATION. Is moderation 3 posts a day? Is moderation 5 posts a day? Is moderation 15 post a day? Or does moderation have no ending number?

I miss a lot of them that use to come. I would miss you also. I think you have my personal email address so you could email sometime if you wish.

Going to see if there is anything new on the boards besides cut and paste and cruise on out.

Have a great day,

Ron

[SunnyGirl]

Ron you have some vaild points....

And some I disagree with totally!

I will take your advice.....

"Have a great day"

I wish you peace on your journey, SG

[caressa]

Sounds like you are trying to control things Mr. Duck. Perhaps you should look at these issues. What gives you the right to say that someone can only post so many times. We have a new member. Another one had trouble registering and she is going to try again. As for the others, I don't have their addys or I would invite them back. Life happens, people get busy and get a life other than EoR and don't have the time to be here.

Whatever happened to principles before personalities? Like SunnyGirl, I like sharing with others and why should my reponses be included in my posting limit?

This is a recovery site! At least that is my understanding and some of the insinuations and demands don't seem like good healthy recovery living to me. No one stops you from talking about your lawn mower or snow blower. No one tells you want to post. What gives you the right to play God with other people's lives and telling them what they can or cannot share here.

[MrDuck]

Is it a control issue. Yes it is. But I do not wish to control the board for my own personal gain but for the gain of all, including you, that come to EOR.

I have been to various sites and seen some of the stuff that people post on them. Some of which in my opinion is in poor taste and should be deleted. There is nothing wrong with the stuff you post. I don’t think anyone has ever quested that. I sincerely believe that your intentions and heart is in the right place and honorable. Where the issue comes in is the number of post. That the shear number of post over shadows not only what others post but also what you yourself post. Is it or is it not true that you have been block out of posting at other sites for that same reason? You have a lot to offer and it would be a shame to see that happen to you on this site.

I know that Max’s policy said no more than one cut and paste per day. My personal choice would be for no more than 5 post per day and I could care less if it was 5 responses, 5 new topics, or 5 cut and pastes. Most things done in moderation are good. Done to excess ruins things. Moderation is not something that comes natural for a true alki. I should know :-). Things seem to work for me better in moderation ( hate that word) But it was lack of moderation in things that use to get my arse in trouble.

Not sure what the final out come will be. But hope that it works out for the good of the site.

I meant what I said about you have a lot to offer. I really do wish you the best.

Ron

[dg]

Wanted to reply to this post yesterday but my head is still in a fog sick state. I hate colds and its blah feelings that goes w/it.
I will try to make some sense to what I am going to say.
I am for no more than 2-5 post/cut paste/ a day too. I think that excessive posting of cut paste is not a true E,S, H feeling.
I also understand that cut pasting something that pertains to some kind of help in recovery for those that seeks info out.. BUT it goes with the understand of this site to be those that has to share their E,S, H in recovery.
Poems, and stuff like that is not about sharing a experience of what one goes thru. Telling your stuff from the heart is.
Granted, I don't post lot of E,S, H but when I do, its from my heart.
Replying to a poem, or a cut/paste of something is only stating something that is coming from just that the cut/paste material.
I understand Caressa of your illness. I have similar illness of fibro, arthritis. My doc and physical therapist, pain management did tell me that to not be on the computer much as it does aggravate the hands, arms, neck nerves. What I do by staying on, making it worse is on me.
Now my thinking is if you have 111 email addies, and some websites to put your stuff on their is great, I am all for you to be able to share out there with the wide world of web people.
EOR when it started, years ago by Kathleen, was for recovery by all kinds of addictions. Many people that came here, posted from the heart. Not much cut/pasting back then if I recall. If there was it was only at one section on the boards, not all over the place.
I am not trying to attack you Caressa, you mean well with your shares and what you want to offer but I want to keep EOR the way it used to be years ago. Its up to us to do that as we don't have Max to carry on the way Kathleen ran the ship, we don't have many old timers popping in and then we have the newbies who just don't know their way around the boards and its up to us to keep that part alive.
Now if Max wants to make a spot on the boards strictly for cut/paste stuff maybe its the way to go, that way other things don't' get lost in the shuffle.
Everybody has their own way to seek recovery, be it a f2f meeting, a on line meetings, reading stuff about their problems, and we can't make everyone happy. Its been stated already by SG.
But as far as EOR goes and what this site is really all about I want to keep that intact. Until Max does different or anybody else that buys out this site.
And the way things are with very very few people coming here to post. we are the only ones that can keep this site in its originality.

One more thing is the access of getting here still a big issue too.
Only those that knows the link of the proboards back door can really come here. I tried on my laptop earlier to get in, and didnt' have the back door link so I had to come to my big em and got here to post this reply. It sucks. I wished I could get ahold of someone to at least explain to us whats up.

If Max can't keep this place going then we have to decide what we should do in keeping EOR alive.

[caressa]

As you say DG, I can't be on the computer for long periods of time that is why I come and do a little bit when I can whether it is 3 a.m. or 9 a.m. or 2 p.m. or 7 p.m.

As I have stated I don't post for people like you who come by occasionally or any one else who is a longtimer. I post recovery material for living in today so the visitors will have something to read besides gossip.

I agree with SunnyGirl. Some of the poems and quotes she posts are food for my soul. I don't claim to know it all. I am not the be all and end all and this is a program of humilty not humiliation. I try to remain teachable and open to other peoples ideas. What I share comes from the heart not the head like some people. Instead of just thinking of what I want, I try to express how I feel about anything that anyone posts to this site. I seldom post anything on the site that I copy and paste without sharing my thoughts on the topic. Even then, words speak for themselves and don't need my two cents added. I am not that important and yet if I am led to it, I feel like I should share it. That is how I was told sobriety works. You have to give it away in order to maintain it. If I am open to growing and changing and become a better person, I look for material that helps me to give me new awareness, new direction, and new insight. I no longer want to be the person I use to be and acting out in my disease. I am not a dry drunk.

[SunnyGirl]

I am disappointed that Ron and DG feel that the posts
should be limited. I know from past posts that Lin
pretty much feels the same...

I've been going thru many of the posts today, just
reading...... DG, you've been missing in action for
quite some time and I miss the ESH you used to share.
If you are not going to use your 2-5 post's can I use
your's and mine also?

Lin, you were part of the backbone of this site, I remember
you used to have a quota of posts (?-7-?) that
you tried to make daily. (no cut and paste but pure ESH)
You now have 2 jobs- and another site you chat and message
on..... If you don't stop by and post, can I use a couple
of your 2-5 posts each day.

Ron, you've been here since the inception of EOR.....
I've seen you respond to the new-ones and welcome
them, good job my friend. I noticed on the front page......
--Most users online was 64, Apr 14, 2008
I went thru a whole bunch of sections today to see what
all the people were reading on the message boards that
day. There was no chip pulled that day, there were no
posts in the coffee shop other than Caressa's "Have a great
Day", nothing in AA or Alanon..... Maybe they were all here
celebrating the greeting from Caressa. Fact is, no one
know exactly why they don't come back or why they didn't
take the time to make a post. Oh, and by the way.....
If you don't use up your posts for the day, may I use them?

Sober Recovery, is always busy and they have sections for
cut and paste. From the looks of it, it gets read! I've also
taken the time to go thru some of the poems, prayers and
stuff I've shared ~via~ cut and paste and the amount of
views is about the same as when I share my ESH.

When I am moved by a special recovery poem or prayer...
When I feel good about an article I read....

I can't wait to share it with my "recovery friends".....
I had no idea, that it was causing you three so much
discomfort. I appologize......

Please don't hang all this cut and paste business on
Caressa..... I am just as guilty (slightly less active) but
just as guilty of putting cut and paste here.

Here another thing.......

Should there be time limits as to how long we can stay
logged on, that just might help with the 2-5 posts rule.
Maybe it's just the fact that people here get tired of
seeing the name SunnyGirl up and down the message
board. Just trying to think this thru...... ;D

I will comply with what ever rules you come up with....
I will go along with the majority vote.

Your friend in recovery, ~SG~

[MrDuck]

Untill Max makes a final decision Cherie it appears as though you can cut and paste and post all you want. It hasn't slowed Caressa down. You will have one less to worry about as untill he makes his decision or her computer goes down I am done posting here.

As a going away present Cherie you can have my 5 post per day. :-)

Keep smiling and have a great day,

Ron

[SunnyGirl]

I'm sorry you feel that way Ron.....

I am not responsible for Caressa or what she
chooses to share with others.....

I agree excessive cut and paste, plastered on
the boards is not a good thing.

It almost sounded like we had a compromise for a
moment, then you started about, excessive posting,
no more than 5 a day. In my opinion that is bordering
on excessive or obsessive control of the message board.

When Max finds his way back, if he chooses to block my
ip so be it. In the meantime, if you choose to walk away
that is on you. I'd hate to see it, but you give the impression
it's your way or the hiway.... ~SG~

H.A.L.T.=Hope Acceptance Love Tolerance

p.s. If you choose to stay and you want to share
your post's we could divy them 3 for you and 2 for me ;D

[max]

looks like we have a hot topic that has everyones attention .. i believe we have a classic case of the issue is not the issue here ... i am pondering each post to read between the lines as well as hear the meat of the matter ... i have a couple thoughts ... first i think of a family dynamic .. functional/disfunctional ... we clearly have a disfunction ... disfunction is when all the needs of the family are not getting met ... so a suggestion is to start a post concerning what it is you need from this site?, what attribute do you offer? what benefit do you get? ... and what motivates you to frequent here? ... lets lay out some positive dialog ... a newcomer is trying to escape there chaos and will never be interested in another disfunction, remember we attract what we are .. i think we can accomodate each one of us, and when we understand the needs of oneanother then it will be a lot easier to move back into a healthy functionality .. it seems to me that we are still trying to hold on to a phantom memory of eor rather then be who we are today ... time creates changes in each one of us ... as does it with everything .. lets all see if we can define the real issue here, you know the one that lies closer to the root ... as far as the cut and paste and the # of posts one can make, lets create a standard and discipline ourselves to follow it .. with that though, if we have a maximum, then we will need a minimum too ... hmmm, now theres a concept ... i want to thank you all for your care and concern for this site, eor is a reflection of each one of you, i'll be back later to see where this goes, your friend, max

[MrDuck]

“what it is you need from this site?, what attribute do you offer? what benefit do you get? ... and what motivates you to frequent here?”

WOW. That says a lot and makes me think. At the moment my time is limited as I have a server down and tech in working on it. Had a few minutes so popped in. One would think that the questions above would be easy to answer. Apparently not for me. When I get more time will try figure it out. If nothing else but for my own peace of mind. I know last night when I went to bed I was maybe wondering that myself. I use to like the boards as it was a place to share and find out how others thought and or handled things. It was relaxing to come to the boards. Last night was thinking that it is more frustrating to come here than relaxing.

“What attribute do I offer?” Usually try to post and issue that one can identify with in the real world. To let others know that it is alright to do or think stupid things sometime and how to cope with life in general.

“What benefit do I get?” Not much at the moment. Still do enjoy reading what someone posts that is on a personal nature.

“then you started about, excessive posting,
no more than 5 a day. In my opinion that is borderingon excessive or obsessive control of the message board.” It was a suggestion. If it was control I would of said something like. 5 WILL BE the maximum. Moderation is having a reasonable number and one has to exercise self discipline. What a thought for an alki haha. Excessive is what I did that got me here in the first place. Had no self control. If I had self control you would never of meet me. :-)


Well I have to go see how the computer is going. Hopefully good as I really am getting behind in work.

Have a great day and keep smiling.

Ron

[dg]

Thanks Max for your response to this issue that has been lurking for a long while, it always seems to pop up over and over since you took over.
You mentioned about our being dysfunctional and functional. Well in my opinion, we are all dysfunctional seeking to learn how to be a functional person, or else we wouldnt' be in recovery today. Even if we been sober for years.. the mode of our quirks will always come up in trying to deal with a problem, there fore we are dysfunctional always. Better word, nobody's perfect.
Granted EOR is NOt what is used to be, it will never be like this again and I am glad to have been a part of the history of what it used to be. Maybe I didnt' make myself clear on trying to hold on to what it used to be. I meant the whole aspect of sharing and learning among others. Not the parties, or games we all used to play. That was fun of course but then again it did work forme at the moment as far as MY own recovery goes.
The questions you asked are good ones, I probably have mentioned my answers over the years on this in ways of how I respond to posts.
Why I first came to recovery, was to deal with an addict. Me being an ex addict didnt' understand why someone couldn't just quit. I guess I was one of the lucky ones that just quit and that was the end of it. BUT little did I know I myself never parcipitated in a recovery program to understand the why I used in the first place and not everybody is like me to quit and be done with it. So.. me trying to figure out a solution to a problem on how to do meetings brought me here to EOR. but right now, its so hard to get online due to log on problems.
What attribute to I have to offer? Hmmm, after 5 years of coming here and posting when I thought was fitting for me to share my trials and tribulations of my life, to help those that was is in need of help, or just to be a friend. Altho, I guess my not coming by often to share my E,S,H isn't enough. I do try tho. I have never stopped coming for a long time maybe a week or two at a time if that.
What benifits do I get? Right now its more what I am going to share today on this board, be it from a post from someone that posted here, or maybe a thought of my own if I had to share. So really not getting much benifits for my own personal growth for a long while.
What motivates me to frequent here? I have stated before, I have been coming here since Kathleen started, shortly after she made this site. Seek a recovery online meeting for me. Thats has been long gone. So I still come here mainly because I have HOPE that one day it would grow in a direction that it would be alive. Altho I am well aware that its not going to be like it used to be, but it can still be alive as in "Sorta like it used to be."
Now I have a question for you Max?Lets put the shoe on the other foot, What do you benifit from keeping this site going? What attribute to you have to share? Do you feel that you should be in part of EOR as part of the family or just someone that keeps it going?

[SunnyGirl]

Max....

Just guessing you found my post in the coffee shop.
You did say, "so a suggestion is to start a post concerning,
what it is you need from this site?"

hope posting it there wasn't a faux pas....

Link to coffee shop posts.... SG

eor.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6413


Edited to add the following links and comment:

Max this whole situation is deja vu .....
Please read the following link!

eor.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=AA&action=display&thread=1087472312

[max]

What do you benifit from keeping this site going?

there is no benefit .. just satisfaction that it is still available to those who would like to share their life with others

What attribute to you have to share?

i can share an alternative view point on several topics

Do you feel that you should be in part of EOR as part of the family or just someone that keeps it going?

i would like to be part of the family, although i havent put the time in that would allow that

[dg]

Hi Max, thank for your answers. I would really like to see you be a part of family more often if you can. Even if its as often as me when I stop by.
Take care Max.
ps, stay warm up where u are at too.