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Post by SunnyGirl on Nov 13, 2003 16:33:32 GMT -5
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:48 am - By: CLARKEC
Post subject: does it hurt
I am struggling this morning to understand a few things.
This all goes back to the disease question posted a few
days ago. See I can accept alcholism as a disease to a point and
then when things tug at the heart strings that goes out the window.
I am wondering does it hurt the person alkie/addict whatever that
their kids are being raised and taken care of and loved tucked in
to bed at nite and they arent there to see it or be a part of it? I
cant imagine being able to sleep if I didnt know my child was safe
and warm and fed and happy. But her Dad seems he can just go
underground for weeks and not know how she is. MAybe he knows
I am taking care of things ,or maybe he just doesnt think of it at
all.
This is the part that gets me the most and honestly I am not even
sure if my child is as hurt by it as I want to think she is. She has
gotten to a point where he is a scary person in her life and she
doesnt want to be a part of that person. But often out of the blue
she will say i just wonder how he is mom and i pray he is safe.
That hurts me so how could it not hurt him
I am sorry I said all this its just puzzling to me and I also know
that a big part of me feels rejected and I often times project
it on to her so trying to not take this personally
thanks
cindy
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Post by SunnyGirl on Nov 13, 2003 16:40:26 GMT -5
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:43 am
Post subject: addictions..... By: Sunnygirl
Mornin Cindy,
Excellent question! My experience leads me to believe,
when the alkie/addict are actively using they are most
concerned with the next drink/drug. The drink/drug is
the most important thing in their life at that time. They
may have feelings of saddness, but they are to busy
numbing their feelings to reflect on it for to long. If they
have another drink/drug it just may change their feelings.
I have seen mothers out there drinking and drugging, they
have no idea who are tucking their babies into bed. I
could never understand how mothers could NOT stop the
drug and drinking when faced with the posibility of losing
custody of her children. But it happens more often than
we like to believe.
I see the disease of ADDICTION as a very powerful mental
illness. "Normal" people have a hard time understanding
mental health issues and there is a stigma to being diagnosed
with any mental disorder. Not every addict/alkie is diagnosed
bi-polar or schizophrenic, but the brain is altered by the years
of drinking/drugging. It just feels so much kinder to think of
the addict/alkies disease comparable to diabetes or cancer.
In my case, my daughter is diabetic and bi-polar and a recovering
addict. Society, even the medical field, can be cruel with
their attempts to treat her physically.
I can only answer this, as a third person, I am not the "A".
I can only guess how much a Daddy loves his daughter/son.
The disease of addiction rob's the "A" of most of his "normal"
emotions but when he does feel the love, he also feels the
guilt. Hope some of this made sense, I am not a doctor or a
scientist, AND I AM NOT AN ALCOHOLIC....
this is just my experience and my feelings.
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Post by SunnyGirl on Nov 13, 2003 16:43:54 GMT -5
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 4:42 pm By: mrsspanish
cindy,
can understand and relate to what your are saying. i have wondered the same thing. how can my husband deal with the loss of his family in a normal setting. yes he sees his sons once a week for 2 hours, never sees his daughters or his grandson. he says he cares but i dont think he does. seing his sons is only a matter of control" see what i can do" i agree with cherie, it is a disease a mental disease. i cannot compare it to cancer or diabtes because there most people try o take care of themselves.
dont know if this helps but i have wondered the same day in and day out and no amount of thinking helps me feel better about it.
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Post by SunnyGirl on Nov 13, 2003 16:46:14 GMT -5
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:17 pm - By: Okaydeano
Who could better answer your question then an alcoholic.
No, it doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts. That's why I drank. If it started to hurt I drank until it didn't hurt at all. My wife basically raised our oldest son. Both boys were tucked in bed at night by her. I never even thought about it. I never worried that maybe they didn't have 'things' like good clothes, ample study time, attention and love. I brought them big giant presents like t.v.'s and stereo's and vcr's so that they would think (or so I thought) that dad was a great guy.
It hurts now, though, now that I"m sober. Sometimes I slip and start looking at my past. There is so much I missed. I missed the bedtime stories, the loving hugs, the tears when they were hurt, the tales of what went on at school that day. I missed the first tooth being pulled, the 'fairy' putting the dollar under the pillow, the school shows, the teacher's meetings etc. I cannot go there. It is the past. I can't change it and have to accept it. I have to live for today and move on.
It surely didn't hurt when I was a full blown drunk. Matter of fact I rarely often even thought about it. I just assumed it would be done. Donna would do it. I knew she was responsible. I knew she wouldn't let them go without time, attention, affection and 'things'.
I can only speak for me because this is the only life I've led. But, I can tell you that I've heard the same story time and time again at speaker meetings. So, there must be a few of us alkies out there who went through the same thing, and felt (or didn't feel) the same way.
I can understand why you are hurt. Donna was hurt too. That's why after I was sober for two years she almost left me. I was back like nothing ever happened and wanted everything to be all roses when she still needed to discuss and prune away the thorns of the past. **** near sunk us as a couple. I sure am glad we got past it.
((((Cindy))))
Words don't make it easier, and maybe the truth about how I felt might not help. An alcoholic 'in his cups' (still drinking) strives to feel nothing. I drank for oblivion and for life to end. Thank God, one day He made me want to live again.
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Post by SunnyGirl on Nov 13, 2003 16:49:12 GMT -5
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:58 pm By: Gracie
I just couldnt understand either how my daughter's dad could not call or see her, especially in the beginning. I just agonized over it. Although it was a pretty hard pill to swallow, I was told that maybe that was just the way he really was. As the years passed and he got sicker and sicker, and she got older, he did see her more, and knowing the situation, I was crazy because it was a very sick situation. If I didn't have a shrink telling me to get out of the middle, I had the courts threatening me for denying visitation. When he died, I told my husband of all the things my ex and I had been thru concerning my daughter, I still couldn't come to terms and forgive that he gave her drugs and alcohol. How could I forgive that? How could a parent do that to their child? We talked at length about what drugs and alcohol does to a person, and the sickness is so cunning and becomes so rampant, that anything could be justified in a sick mind. Would he had done that had he been clean and sober...in my heart of hearts I want to think not. Yes, it hurt my daughter, all the forgotten times he was to show up and didn't, or months without a call when she was little, seeing him so sick, and participating with him. But I tried my best to work my side as her other parent...and she is coming along fine although the scars are still there. I suppose from things she says, and asks, that we will be dealing with this for a very long time maybe the rest of our lives. All the times I didn't know if she was safe or not, esp. during her teen years, I said a warfare prayer every morning. I still do for her and my son. That is what allows me to hand it over to God, and there have been miracles. There has been peace. You seem very caring and loving ...stay strong and guide your daughter thru this, give her the tools, do what you think is right for her best interest.
Love, Gracie
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Post by SunnyGirl on Nov 13, 2003 16:52:42 GMT -5
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 10:23 pm - By: Okaydeano
I was done. One day, I called off work because I was drunk and high on painkillers from a recent surgery. My son called home from high school and said the car was acting up. In my drunken state, I thought I told him to take to the car dealer and they would take care of it. He came home after leaving the car. The dealership called and he told them to go ahead and fix the car. He says I told him to 'go ahead and get it taken care of.' I honestly don't know what I said. But, they did about $200 dollars worth of repairs for $450 bucks. I was pissed to say the least. As a matter of fact it set me off into one of my alcoholic tirades of anger. And being very well aquainted with words I knew how to make them hurt and hurt bad. I brow beat that boy into the ground with my anger because he approved those repairs.
I took him down to the dealership with me and made him sign my personal check. The service manager refused to take it. I created a huge scene and told the service manager if my 16 year old son can approve such outrageous repairs then he should also take my check with the boy's signature on it. To get rid of me, the service manager cut the cost practically in half and led me out the door.
When we got home, I began on the boy again. By then it was early evening....5pm or so....I passed out in my bedroom stark raving naked. At about 8pm I came to and wandered out into the family room/wife's office in time to see my son jumping up and down and hollering, "I hate that son of a b---- and I wish he were dead." In my still drunken state I believed I heard my wife and youngest son agree.
I went back to bed. I stayed in bed for three days. My wife had to call me off work. The only thing I would say to her is, "I quit." She thought I meant work. What I meant was, "I've quit wanting to live." I decided I would stay in that bed until I died. I only got up to use the bathroom and shoot down several beers because I was starting to detox and had the shakes and sweats.
Sometime in the afternoon of the third day, I was home alone laying in the bed with the covers up over my head, with the blinds and curtains drawn in the bedroom. A voice inside of my head said to me, "Okay, Deano. It's time. Get up and get some help." All of a sudden I wanted to live where all I had wanted before that was to die. I called an outpatient treatment facility and gave them a full and complete account of my drinking and my physical condition. The refered me to an inpatient facility because they said I needed to detox. The day I made that call was Thursday, August 20th, 1998. They told me not to drink after midnight and be there by 10am the next morning. The beer didn't last until midnight. I finished the last one at 9:55 pm that evening. I know that because as I raised the can to slurp down the last drop I looked straight at the kitchen clock. I tried to talk my wife into going out and getting more beer but for once in her life she said no. I went to bed for a fit-filled night of unrest and entered the treatment center the next day when my wife drove me there and dropped me off. The treatment center led me to A.A. meetings every night after my four day detox. Everything from there is history.
Why did I stop? I felt I had lost everything and everyone in my life. I thought that I was alone and wished dead by whole family. I wanted to drink but I didn't want to drink. I wanted to stop but didn't know how to stop. I wanted to die but I wanted to live. And thank God he fanned that spark inside of me that made me want to live and led me to treatment and A.A.
There is a passage in the big book that has become one of my favorites because it happened in my own life and I've seen it happen in other recovering alcoholics lives too. "The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked,
'"Don't see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?' "
I came out of my cyclone cellar and said the same thing. "Isn't it grand? I'm sober! Now let's start living life."
I did my steps and when I came to step nine, I offered my wife my apologies and told her that the only thing I could give her was an amended life of sobriety on my part. To me, I had taken my inventory, admitted my defects and faults to God and another man, made my list of amends and had 'made' amends to my wife. What I forgot to pay attention to was the paragraph in the Big Book that follows the paragraph above: "Yes, there is a long period of reconstruction ahead. We must take the lead. A remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won't fill the bill at all. We ought to sit down with the family and frankly analyze the past as we now see it, being very careful not to criticize them. Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible. So we clean house with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our Creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness and love."
I had it in my head that I didn't need to dig up the past with my wife. My amends were made and the subject was closed. Any mention of the past was just a vindictive way of making me suffer a heavy guilt trip. So untrue that was. My wife needed to clean house with me. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, my wife found no solace in Alanon. So she didn't do the steps herself. She needed to get rid of all the resentments, anger and hurt inside of herself. And I wasn't allowing that to happen. She finally found an outlet. She found a great psychologist and a support group for abused/battered women. That too was hard for me to swallow becuase I never hit her. But I DID ABUSE HER...emotionally, mentally, spiritually and that led to many physical problems for her.
A granite block hit me in the head. I read the second paragraph and realized that I needed to let her vent at me and with me. I needed to let her tell me just how much I hurt her. I needed to allow her an outlet and the chance to heal herself by giving her the opportunity to confront me safely. We basically tore our relationship down to bedrock and started all over again. And we have been so happy the last year and a half. I love her like I've never known how to love her before. It amazes her when I tell her that I love her so much more then before. She thinks I didn't love her with all my heart before and in reality I didn't it because so much of my heart was darkened with the sickness of active alcoholism.
I didn't want to do it, Doris. I had to do it or loose the love of my life and the family I have.
ROFL.....I was a self-righteous, arrogant snot when I first got sober. Basically the same man I was except I was dry. I made it a point to tell my wife that the most important thing in the world was my sobriety. Because that was what my sponsor told me. Hell, I didn't even really understand it so I couldn't very well explain to Donna (my wife) that what it meant was that if I didn't stay sober, we would not have a life together ever. I was still an //////////. It takes time to come out of it. It takes time to realize how much ego and pride, self-centeredness and selfishness has led one's life. It took me awhile to get the splinter of humility that sometimes shows up in my life and I have a long long way to go yet. But, progress not perfection, each day, week, month, year gets better and life is improving. Not all at once. But after all it took me over 20 years of drunkenness to screw everything up so bad I couldn't possibly expect everything to be fixed up in four short years. Once I learned, worked and applied the steps to my life, change excelerated.
Sorry I got so wordy, Doris. Sometimes a topic really strikes my heart and the words just won't stop coming.
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Post by rosepedilgirl on Nov 15, 2003 21:27:18 GMT -5
WELL,
ty you post let me understand how my love ones felt!
see when i used ,, the drugs came first,, when i slept,
not often , i would wake up thinking of my love ones, but as soon as i figure out the how to get started again,
the thought was back at getting the drug,,
it takes over..
even when we said i quit, let something not go the way we don't want it too,, and our minds go to quit and drugging..
so that's one reason when have to work our sobriety daily..
strive to stay clean./ or sober
as you know when we are ,, we are where for our loved ones,,
we strive to please everyone..
we have hearts too...
but while using ... we use...
till we say enough is enough !
get the help we need ,,
work one day at a time.. striving for recovery!
today we can only pray for the ones using,,,
ask GOD '' to help us, to understand the alcohol or drug has control...
our loved ones are in that body!
there minds are too !
but they have to want to get clean / sober..
and want is a big work here in recovery....
until they decided to seek help,,
the biggest thing on their mind is how to use..
they usely come around ,, but are looking for help for the fuel of addiction,,,,
i thank GOD every day for touch love..
at the time my addiction had control..
the best thing my family did was say, when you are
ready ''' not until you are ,,,
don't come around here.. go get help and i will be
where,, but until,,, you get control... stay away..
it hurt .. but family needs to stay strong.. and pray !
love doesn't go away ...
a child is a gift,, we all know how like that gift is...
stay strong...
pray to GOD,
ask him for help.......
you child is right ,, she already knows to ask '' GOD'''
@---(----(------
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Post by majestyjo on Apr 12, 2015 17:37:59 GMT -5
Couldn't stop on my own. I knew I was an addict but in denial about being an alcoholic. I think I wanted that out, and still not willing to completely surrender until enough was enough. I was sick and tired of being tired and sick. I still get that way in recovery and I know I am in a danger zone. I have to ask myself, "What brought this one," and I know it is prayer time. What ever 'It' is, I know it is prayer worthy, no matter what 'it' is.
I know in today, I don't have to pick up over it. I don't have to 'act out in my disease over it. I don't have to take my pain out on others because of it. Today it is between me and my God. He is my Rock and my Salvation. I would not be alive today if it wasn't for AA. They gave me a reason for living and a new change in attitude and a open mind to go on a spiritual quest to look at who my God was to me and to make my relationship with my God personal.
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. I will be back looking for Lin and others.