step 4 question (other one didn't post)

[Lin]

I have a question about step 4.

In step 4 the AlAnon's have several books with lists of many character defects. (paths to recovery and blueprint for progress are 2 of them) They have a long list that we reflect on and also long list of character assets. Those are what we build on as our strengths.

I heard recently than some other 12 step groups only focus on 4 areas for the defects...fear, resentments, anger and guilt. They dont even look for assets. I was wonderfing if anybody reading this could confirm this? it's a new one on me!

I know right here on the boards Mistyeve's section has a list of defects and assets and that comes from Father John Doe. IS that the way in other methods too> Or do other groups ignore the assets? and do others limit the defects to 4 main ones?

I'm curious to learn about this one.

In Alanon we say there is no right or wrong way to work the program..so there must be no right or wrong way to work step 4.

LIN

[MrDuck]

I would tend to agree with you that there is no right or wrong way to work it. Maybe the only wrong way is to NOT work it. When I do a 4th step I basically take my inventory of both my positives and negatives. When I do the 5th step with a priest I basically just talk about the negatives to ask forgiveness for. No need to ask forgiveness for the posititves. Them I can give God thanks for myself.

One of the things I hated about treatment years ago is that all they wanted to work on were the negatives. I realize that we need to work on negatives. But some of us know only to well about the negatives. Some of us have to focus on the fact that we have some positives to.

For those of you that remember Morey, I love that lady. We use to kid each other about taking the others inventory. So one day I told her to do it. She did. For about an hour she got my inventory. Most people when you give them the chance, or that just do it, like to focus on your negatives and ripe you apart. Morey not only pointed out my negatives but also my positives. Of all the people that have taken my inventory I was amazed at how good she did and how right on I felt she was.

To me there is more then just negatives. And we are more then just negatives. We have positives to and need to focus on them also and be thankful for them.

I like to compare myself to a battery. A battery has two terminals. A positive terminal and a negative terminal. If a battery has to many negative cells it has not live in it and is useless. If a battery has to many positives charges it will explode and you have nothing. But if a battery has the right amount of positives and negatives you can start up a D-9 Catapiller and go push a mountain around. That is the way I am. To many negatives I am useless. To many positives I am not worth nothing either.

So much for the opinions of a duck today.

Love you all.

Ron

[Lin]

Thanks so much for your reply! I loved teh battery analogy. That was great RON!

I do remember Morey. I thought abut asking her this question also, but I know she is really busy with her life right now. She's a gem, all right!

And it appears you got my other post to open. When i tried yesterday it told me the page was unavailable. HMMM> lol

You mentioned treatment centers focusing on the negatives. After I posted this I asked my spouse...who spent 93 days in a very good center almsot 3 years ago. He said they focused on teh negatives there, not the positives. Like you said...and I agree..no right and wrong way to work it..jsut be sure to WORK IT!

THANKS RON!

LIN

[Caressa2]

I like the battery premise, it reminds me that when I surrender to my Higher Power, I am empowered to do what I need to do for myself.

When I was in treatment, we had to do "daily affirmations", each morning we had to say something positive about ourselves! It was difficult for all of us. We all came from different walks of life, but after years of poor self-esteem, self-worth and abuse, there wasn't much thought of the positive. It was a good way to start my recovery. One of the greatest gifts in early recovery was to be told by a native woman that "God doesn't make no junk!"

What comes to mind is the song, "Eliminate the negative, excentuate (?) the positive, and go with Mr. In-Between. Again, like all things, it is about balance.

One of the scariest things I hear is that people haven't done this step or that, because they haven't done any other than Step One. I had a man ask me once if I worked the Twelve Steps in my recovery and I said, "Yes, some days all Twelve!"

In the Big Book on page 76 is says:

Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble? Does this mean we are going to get drunk? Some people tell us so. But this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and on our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done, and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things, we believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. If we are not sorry, and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts out of our experience.

... We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We have begun to comprehend their futility and their fatality. We have commenced to see their terrible destructiveness. We have begun to learn tolerance, patience and good will toward all men, even our enemies, for we look on them as sick people. We have listed the people we have hurt by our conduct, and are willing to straighten out the past if we can.

In this book you read again and again that faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves. We hope you are convinced now that God can remove whatever self-will has blocked you off from Him. If you have already made a decision, and an inventory of your grosser handicaps, you have made a good beginning. That being so you have swallowed and digested some big chunks of truth about yourself.

This sound like me getting honest with me. God can, I can't, and just for today, I choose to let Him.

[mistyeve]

Dear Lin---I have done several 4th steps thru my years of recovery. I
have written a letter to God. I've
done the booklet from Hazelton. I've done 250 Questions from the hospital. I have done specific 4th
step on one topic. My best 4th step is on the 7 Deadly Sins. This is an index of character defects or sins
that all of human kind share in one degree or another. Some have it a lot stronger in some areas then in
others. It talks about this in the
12 & 12 and I think it is a real good way to pinpoint what really needs to be looked at and worked on. The negative stuff in necessary to let you know what needs to be improved on. The most positive thing I can think of about the 4th
step is WE ARE NOT BAD PEOPLE TRYING TO GET GOOD WE ARE SICK PEOPLE TRYING TO GET BETTER.....

Thanks for the post honey. It really got me thinking----MISTYEVE

[dordep]

Dear Lin,

When I did my 4th step in AA, I went to a 3 day Big Book Study which included a handout on how to do the 4th step.

There were four pages to check things off:
fears, resentments, sexual conduct, harms done to others. In reading the 4th step in the AA l2 and l2, it says to list the profoud, and words such as that for your character defects, which they say for an alkie are the above four.

But in meetings of AA, I have heard that you should list your assets too, so that you will specifically know where you are ok and what you have to still work on.

When I did my 4th step, it was prior to going to this Big Book Study and i wrote as far back as I could remember in my life and did not list I disagreeets. I think that is why it took me 2 years to complete my 4th step, as the more bad I wrote about myself , the more discouraged I got in ever being able to get better. My sponsor , at that time, told me to put the 4th step away for a month everytime that happened and then try it again. She was 28 years sober and stuck to the character defects. But remember this was an AA 4th step. The other 12 step programs may be different and allow assets too. I wish I had listed the assets too. If i knew I could do that I don't believe it would have taken me so long to complete my 4th step and wouldn't have gotten me so down.

Only my experience, strength and hope.

love ya,

[dordep]

Dear (((lin)))

I've tried to post a reply to this topic 3 times and for some reason it won't post...i'll keep trying and see if this one posts..

love ya

[SunnyGirl]

Excellent shares, many thanks to all of you.....

Hugs, SG

[majestyjo]

Figure it doesn't matter what way you do it as long as you do it.

I used the format in the Big Book and talked alcohol and drugs (dried up alcohol) and journalled for 6 years.